No Show

Visionaries from the 2025 Phocuswright Conference

• Jeff Borman and Matt Brown

Share episode

No Show is at the 2025 Phocuswright Conference this week talking to a variety of exhibitors, innovators, and speakers and taking their temperature on the present and future of travel technology. We found out that:

  • Levee founder Al Lagunas is done with the 3 pm check-in
  • Ron Glickman from Innovation Launch People’s Choice Award Winner Acai Travel is ready for boundaries to be pushed
  • Taylor Palmer from SiriusXM Connect is putting safety at your fingertips
  • Etraveli Group's Peny Rizou has a prophecy about the future of fraud prevention
  • The inimitable Mickey Beyer-Clausen from Timeshifter is thinking about the rhythms of life
  • Tourism Tasmania CMO Lindene Cleary loves changing perceptions
  • And Mirko Lalli from Data Appeal believes in the dual power of democratization and simplification
Matt Brown:

Hi everybody. No show is at the 2025 Focus Right Conference in San Diego this week, and we've been talking to exhibitors and innovators and speakers who are all part of a rapidly evolving conversation about technology's role in travel. We've collected some of the greatest hits from the show floor, so excuse some of the audio and crowd noise. I was sort of doing a like a man on the street kind of thing, like a quick hit interview. So I was snatching people away from the actual work that they should be doing. But there's interesting stuff happening out there, and it's being done by some very nice, very committed people, like this person right here. I have with me the star of the conference, the man with the plan and in demand. Tell us who you are.

Al Lagunas:

Hi, my name is Al Lagunas. I'm the founder of Lovey. So at Lovey, we're building the spatial intelligence layer for hotels. What does that mean exactly? Hotels operate in a physical space, not on a computer screen. So we are bringing intelligence on what's going on within the hotel, within the operations to hoteliers, GMs, brands, people who care about what's you know going on within the walls.

Matt Brown:

Do you have competitors for what you do?

Al Lagunas:

Uh no one directly. We have indirect competitors, but you know, for us, we're, like I said, we're focused on building that intelligence layer. So people who are, you know, think that might be our competitors, that might view us as competitors, we want to give them better information so that way they can run better, operate better. We're focused on getting good data in, again, from these physical spaces, and then powering apps that you know can build on our platform or with us. You know, one of my favorite kind of ways to describe what we're doing is we are gonna kill the 3 p.m. check-in. And what I mean by that is, you know, right now, hotels have been operating the same way for hundreds of years, and the way that hotels deploy labor has been the same since the dawn of the hotel. You know, the way you deploy labor is humans, you rely on humans to go uh clean rooms, inspect rooms, check inventory, set up inventory. So for us, you know, the idea of a hotel running just on these ancient archaic systems, very dependent on humans to you know orchestrate these workflows, that's what we want to change is the idea that when you show up, the room is ready to go, you know, hotel doesn't need to worry about is the room clean and ready for you now? Because the housekeeper who cleaned it can also have the tools with them to inspect the room, catch their errors. Uh inventory-wise, the hotel knows things are out of stock the moment that it's off the shelf, not you know, a week later when you ask for a Guinness and they're like, Oh, it's you know, we we didn't put the order in this week. You know, we'll have the intelligence of again what's going on in that physical space to be able to help them run like it never could before.

Matt Brown:

What a beautiful dream.

Al Lagunas:

Yeah, like I said, the the 3 p.m. check-in is one that gets people excited. Usually when I talk to people from outside the industry, um, you know, one of the ways that I explain to them what our tech helps them do, I always tell them is like, have you been to a hotel before? They go, Yes. I was like, Have you ever been told, hey, you can't check in until three because your room isn't ready? And they'll say, Yes. And I tell them, I was like, well, that hotel lied to you. Because 90% of the time, your room is ready. The hotel just has no idea what's going on within the walls. It's not because they don't want to get you the room, it's not because they don't have it ready, it's because they don't know if it's ready, if it's been inspected, if everything from an inventory perspective is in place. All those things are, you know, those bottlenecks that happen at again in that physical space that they don't have information or are privy to right now.

Matt Brown:

You grew up in a hospitality family. How did that inform this company's creation?

Al Lagunas:

Yeah, definitely. So the the biggest thing for us from the start was, you know, if you go look at every AI tool that's being built right now, which there's tens of thousands, they're all very much designed for the desk worker, the white-collar worker. You know, this is these are tools like uh another email drafting generator or like some sort of automated scheduling tool. Uh, the reality is that we don't need another uh notes app, we don't need another AI note taker, corporate jobs, white-collar work. We have plenty of AI tools out there right now. The labor shortage, the people who are most strained by the current job market, the those challenges that are out there, are all people in these frontline jobs, blue-collar industries. So for us, you know, coming from blue-collar families, my mom worked as a housekeeper in a hotel. These people have been, the industry's turned their back on them from a tech perspective for years. Now we have these new advancements in AI that allow anyone to use a computer at a high level. So it's not about me and Matt being able to draft better emails. It's about you know the people who are in these physical world, physical jobs, being able to have tools to help them do their work, augment what they can do. Um and that's where you know our focus has been is like, how do we help people who essentially have been left behind by technology?

Matt Brown:

What is your favorite bar and or restaurant in Chicago?

Al Lagunas:

My favorite bar in Chicago is a place called Third Rail Tavern. And not to dox myself, but the reason it's my favorite bar is because it's next door to where I live. Uh so yeah, I love going down there to get a quick, quick meal in when I forget to go grocery shopping. Uh I always say that you, you know, my rules for where I live the rest of my life are I gotta be within within one block, one city block of a gym, and then within one city block of a bar. Because having a place that knows you, the hospitality factor is like having a place that knows you, knows what you like, uh, you know, you can hang out with, that's the best. So that's my favorite bar. My favorite restaurant in Chicago is a place called La Scarola. So it is, I would say probably the best Italian food in the city, and by far one of the most reasonably priced Italian restaurants in the city. So it's uh just outside of the loop, maybe like you know, five, 10 minutes. Um, if you walk in there, it's like walking into you know a 1950s Italian restaurant. Uh you can't, they're not on open table, they're not on resi. Uh you have to call to make a reservation. Nine times out of ten, when they answer the phone, it sounds like you're bothering them because they're always booked. But even if you show up without a reservation, very old school Italian where they go, hey, don't worry about it, we're gonna figure it out, and they'll find you a place. Um, but yeah, those favorite bar, favorite restaurant.

Matt Brown:

Those are the most Chicago answers I could have hoped for. Thank you.

Al Lagunas:

Of course. Thanks for thanks for the chat.

Matt Brown:

Okay, and can you tell me a little bit about who you are and why you're here?

Ron Glickman:

My name is Ron Glickman. I'm head of partnerships for Acai Travel. And Asai does what? We're AI agents as a service, but more specifically to travel operations. So anything that deals with that kind of post-booking customer support element, whether it's an airline, an online travel agency, or a corporate travel management company, we're the intelligence layer that really allows the AI agents to perform an action as opposed to just regurgitating stuff that nobody wants to hear. What makes you special in the market? The fact that we can take action, that we understand, okay, wait a minute, this is a booking that came from, let's say, Amadeus, and it's connected to another booking that came from Sabre. And what the traveler is looking to do is do a name correction and having the AI agent know, okay, I have to follow these policies. I want to take action and help this traveler. Here, I'm gonna go ahead and I'm gonna follow the policy of, let's say, Quantus, and I'm gonna change the name and gonna get them on their way instead of having them wait on hold to talk to an agent.

Matt Brown:

What is the biggest change coming to travel over the next three to five years?

Ron Glickman:

I really think it's whether the kind of generic AI companies are going to dip their toe more and more into the water of travel. Obviously, everybody loves to loves to say that my industry is the most complex one and there's no way you can solve it. And uh, you know, uh I work in healthcare and we have all this compliance and whatever. At the end of the day, it would be interesting to see other companies enter into the market, challenge, push the boundaries a bit more. I do believe that AI may be the way that they can go and they can do this. No longer are we so reliant on, oh, you need to have connectivity to this GDS, you don't understand the endpoints, you don't maybe, maybe the industry will be pushed into a into you know the future with all this AI and really focus more on providing the amazing experiences that people want.

Matt Brown:

In your previous life, you uh worked a lot with airlines. Here's the mystery question. If you could snap your fingers and change one thing about the US airline system and can be anything, what would it be?

Ron Glickman:

I really wish the U.S. airlines weren't as beholden to their investors. Um, I I kind of miss the days that we had Northwest and we had U.S. Airways and stuff like that. I'm very sad about what's going on with Spirit. At the end of the day, the people who lose out the most are the consumers. So we've kind of watched all these U.S. airlines get this amazing strength through loyalty programs and lobbying and stuff like this. It's not within our interest as the traveling public to see more consolidation of these US airlines. Now I understand it, they're getting pushed by the investors and they need to provide an ROI to their investors. I hope that that also pushes the likes of you know Breeze and Avello and others to fill this gap. Because if that doesn't happen, if we become beholden to, you know, American Delta and United, we will look exactly like our friends in Australia who complain incessantly about the power that Kwanis has over Virgin Australia and basically nobody else. And we are our own worst enemy in this. We have a very friendly government right now toward business, but we also need to keep into you know our own perspective of we the travelers and what we want, and we want competition and we want to drive airfares down so we can do more travel.

Matt Brown:

That is some truth. Thank you, Ron.

Ron Glickman:

Thank you.

Matt Brown:

Next: Who are you and what do you do?

Mirko Lalli:

Who are you and what do you do? Hi, I'm Mirko Lalli. I'm the CEO and founder of a company that is called the Data Appeal Company, and we help destination to make sense of data. We use AI to extract value from uh data sources and uh from destination uh we help them to take better decisions. And the data appeal company, what makes it special in the market? We are very young because we started as a startup 11 years ago. The idea was since the beginning to help destination because we saw that destinations around the world are very unstructured. They don't have skills, they don't have budget, and uh maybe the biggest one, they have a data scientist kind of to make sense of data. So I think this is very important because the market is becoming more and more uh uh data driven and the B2C side is going on exponential velocity, and the B2B part, the destination part, it really stuck on the past. So, what makes us special is that we want to automatize things where we use AI since the beginning, and uh we want to make it affordable even for the smallest destinations.

Matt Brown:

You personally have worked with massive amounts of data for your entire career. How do you convey that data in accessible ways to non-numbers colleagues? Because that's that's an essential part of the business, right? Is there a golden rule when you share data with people?

Mirko Lalli:

I mean, golden rule it's uh it's a challenging, it's a challenging definition. But uh I can talk about two different phases. Uh the pre-CHAGPT phase. Uh we started before, of course, and we use uh machine learning, deep learning to extract value. And uh the methodology is to use uh a massive amount of data and uh simplify the understanding of the underlying value. For example, we have very high-level KPI for measuring uh sustainability, we have a KPI for measuring inclusivity. There are dimensions that are pretty hard to be measured with uh hard data. And we are able to do that because we interfer together hundreds of different data sources. We want to keep the complexity under the hood, and we want to bring the destinations only the information that bring that allow them to take better decisions. And the second phase is the post-Chat GPT, is what we present uh uh focus right, for example, is uh uh kind of chatting with data. And it's already online, it's already uh active on our platform, is a way in a natural language that you can query data, it's like ChatGPT, but uh made on uh real data without hallucination. And it's pretty useful, especially for the smallest destination that are not able to understand uh complex uh analysis.

Matt Brown:

What do you think the most positive way AI will affect uh the traveler over the next three to five years? What's the benefit of it that's coming to the consumer?

Mirko Lalli:

When I talk about AI, I normally use two words democratization and simplification. It's across the whole industry, not all not only travelers. It's valid also for destinations, for hotels, for airlines, because the technology that seems science fiction since three years ago, it's here and it's possible to it's I mean available to be used by everybody. But for the traveler side, I think the major advantages will be personalization. Personalization because uh using AI you may have uh uh more personalized itinerary, uh especially with some tool. For Google, for example, is uh making more and more integration inside Gemini. And uh, of course, Google has the ability to give you personalized suggestion because uh he knows your data.

Matt Brown:

What is the most underrated place of beauty in Tuscany? Underrated. But if you want to go there and really experience the region truly and authentically, and maybe not get as many crowds, where would that be? Two advices.

Mirko Lalli:

First, come in low season, and uh you can visit even Florence, San Gimignano, Siena, uh in their beauty without the crow. And that's I mean, come in low season, come in December, come in January, it's not too cold. And the second advice come in the south part of Tuscany. There is uh a small city that is actually beautiful, it's called Arezzo, and the surrounding of Arezzo, uh, even the part that there is confining with Umbria, there is another region that's pretty close. They are wonderful and no so crowded all year round. Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you.

Matt Brown:

Tell me your story. Who are you? What do you do?

Taylor Palmer:

My name is Taylor Palmer, and I am a senior marketing manager at Sirius XM Connect. Um, specializing in sales enablement, content design, brand awareness, anything go to market, I do it.

Matt Brown:

In the simplest terms, I want you to pretend that you are sitting down for Thanksgiving dinner and you are explaining what you do to the rest of the family. How would you define Sirius XM Connect?

Taylor Palmer:

Well, I would tell people the safety features that you have in your vehicle, the SOS button, um, if you get in an accident, how you have a diagnostic of what's happened to the vehicle, being able to be connected to emergency services. That is what Sirius XM Connect has done for the last 30 years. But now we are pivoting to a new transformation of how we are bringing safety to travelers. So they have safety that moves with them right in the palm of their hands.

Matt Brown:

Listen to that crisp, concise answer. I love it. What makes it different in the market?

Taylor Palmer:

Well, um, if you look at the market, you don't really see hotels, online travel agencies, or even uh fintech companies like American Express or some of these large credit card companies, they offer these services and these perks, but you don't really see it around safety. So, and one thing we've noticed is a lot of travelers nowadays, being millennials and Gen Zs, they want that extra layer of safety when they're somewhere that's not home. Because the end goal when we travel anywhere is to do what, Matt? Go home. We want to go home. We want to return back from where we came with memories and good experiences. And when you have an experience where you feel unsafe or you're put into danger, you want to know that the brand that you trust is there to protect you. So what we're able to do now is is give brands the opportunity to deepen that uh loyalty and uh duty of care for their customers and show that safety is something that moves with them at the fingertips.

Matt Brown:

You'd better get Sirius XM for free as an employee of this company.

Taylor Palmer:

I do, I do. I get Sirius XM and uh Pandora. So there's a lot of great perks for working for Sirius XM for sure.

Matt Brown:

You were also a North Texas girl, full on. Is that correct?

Taylor Palmer:

That is correct. I am from the good old state of Texas. And uh yeah, Dallas is where I've resided the last 33 years of my life.

Matt Brown:

Double question here. Do you ever call it the Metroplex? And what is your favorite restaurant in the DFW area?

Taylor Palmer:

Ooh, that's tricky because when you say DFW, that's a Dallas, Fort Worth, and all surrounding areas. And I don't think people realize how big that is and how it spans. So I'm gonna give you two. I'm gonna give you my favorite Dallas restaurant, and then I'm gonna give you my favorite Fort Worth restaurant. Um, so in Dallas, um, my favorite restaurant is called True Lux. It's a steakhouse right outside Bishop Arts. Um, it's so great. They have a yellow submarine in it. It's so fun. And if you have kids, it's a great place to take them as far as like the ambiance and the environment. And then in Fort Worth, there is an old saloon steakhouse right in the stockyards that has been there since like the 1700s. If you're a big fan of um 1923, 1883, those those fun western shows. They did a lot of filming in there. So it's kind of a fun experience to go and get a good old Texas steak and um hang around the stockyards and might see a cattle run by or two.

Matt Brown:

Taylor, thank you.

Taylor Palmer:

Thank you so much, Matt. It was a pleasure.

Matt Brown:

We're talking to someone now whose mantra is great, can be greater. Who are you and what do you do?

Peny Rizou:

So, my name is Peny Rizou, and uh these days I'm coming with uh many hats. Uh I am the chief fintech officer of uh e Travel I Group, and I'm at the same time I'm also heading for the new FinTech arm of the group, which is called EG FinTech Solutions, marketing precision as uh our first product.

Matt Brown:

And what is Precision?

Peny Rizou:

So Precision is uh the first fraud solution, uh fraud prevention solution born from travel for travel. We see fraud prevention as uh as a business strategy rather than a fraudless problem, and this means that our decisions target profit maximization in an industry where most travel companies operate in in really thin uh margins. To deliver on this, we need to be highly punctual for every decision we take. And guess what? We are. So we have more than 20 years of experience within uh travel payments and uh fraud, and uh we incorporate this experience in every component of our technology. This is not about just having travel data or some travel customers, but true expertise that translates into fraud strategies and practices that we have already proven uh by us uh expanding globally successfully. And at its core, precision is leveraging purpose-built technology that uh adapts dynamically and can be customized to address different customer needs.

Matt Brown:

There's an old saying that Greeks don't make predictions, they utter prophecies. What do you think is the biggest travel change coming in the next five years?

Peny Rizou:

Agent DKI and uh conversational booking flows are going to reshape both the supply and the demand side on uh the travel. We will see new digital currencies uh emerging, uh fraudsters will be moving there really fast, and payments that look safe today they will be exposed. Uh AI becomes part of everyday uh booking and servicing, and we will see more errors that look like fraud. Now, separating real fraud from AI-driven mistakes will become much harder and much more important. So, for fraud prevention solutions like ours, this means that we have more complex environment to work with.

Matt Brown:

And finally, you've been gifted a dream vacation to go anywhere in the world over the next two, three months. Where are you going to go?

Peny Rizou:

First of all, I live in Greece by the sea. And uh what else could I ask for, right? So uh 365 days uh dream vacations. But uh joke aside, I would exchange it with a stay-home ticket, uh spending some quality time with family, as the rest of the time I am traveling non-stop.

Matt Brown:

Beautiful, safe travels.

Speaker:

Thank you very much.

Matt Brown:

Okay, tell me your story.

Lindene Cleary:

I'm Lindene Cleary. I'm the chief marketing officer at Tourism Tasmania, and so my job is to make people fall in love with Tasmania and want to travel there. Um, and ideally the the kind of people who will come and respect what we offer and value what we offer there.

Matt Brown:

You were in a destination marketing session yesterday. How did it go? Did you did you share anything of interest?

Lindene Cleary:

It was great. It was fascinating. Actually, we talked a lot about seasonality as a challenge for a lot of destinations. Um, it is a challenge for us in Tasmania, which we've been working on addressing for about five years now, uh, with a program called the Off Season, which is about changing perceptions of what a winter holiday can be. And I'm proud to say it's it's working for us.

Matt Brown:

I think Tasmania is in a really interesting position marketing-wise, because 20 years ago the mainland sort of dominated, at least in the United States, as a tourist destination. And I feel like since your tenure, you probably have a lot to do with this. Over the last five years or so, Tasmania has really risen as a a destination. I I know that probably didn't come easy, but is that an accurate perception of how Tasmania is kind of viewed globally as a as a tourist destination and maybe even within Australia?

Lindene Cleary:

Yeah, definitely. It's it the perceptions of Tasmania have changed a lot, probably in the last, I'd say, 10 to 15 years. Um, and that's just around the place itself hasn't changed too much. All of the things that are wonderful about it have always been there. It's just that the world started to pay more attention. And then because of that attention, we're now getting more and more tourism experiences, more and more wonderful restaurants, producers, sort of having more confidence to just try things and um bring their offering to the world. So it's a much more well-rounded destination now than it used to be. You can come for the nature and and wilderness and hiking and things like that, but you can also come now purely for arts and culture or for food and beverages, or you can come for the whole package. It's fantastic.

Matt Brown:

Give me your favorite underrated spot to visit in Tasmania. It can't be one of the big, it can't be the big museum. Give me something that's a little bit off the beaten path that you love visiting.

Lindene Cleary:

Oh, that's a hard one. Um, given my job is to represent the entire state. I can't pick favourites, but um underrated or unknown, that I would say there's quite a lot that's still unknown, particularly outside of Australia. Um and for the US visitor in particular, um, having been here in the US for about 10 days now, everyone I meet says, Oh, all I know about Tasmania is the Tassie Devil. So that we don't need any more awareness for the Tassie Devil, but if that's what gets you paying attention, that's great.

Matt Brown:

You have some of the most beautiful national parks in the world. Is there is there one of those that's a particular favorite?

Lindene Cleary:

Um there, yeah, again, there's so many national parks. Um, but Fraysenay National Park on the east coast is absolutely stunning. It's probably a little more well known. And then you've got Cradle Mountain Lake St. Clair National Park, which is more towards the sort of central west area of Tasmania. Um, that is absolutely stunning, particularly as a winter destination, because you get this beautiful, you know, snowy winter wonderland. You've got wombats waddling around covered in snow. Um, and then you can go inside and cozy up by the beautiful big log fire in the lodge there and um enjoy a world-class whiskey, Tasmanian whiskey or a Pinot Noir. It's absolutely beautiful.

Matt Brown:

Thank you so much and safe travels.

Speaker:

Thank you, Matt. Great to be here.

Matt Brown:

You are one of the few people we've interviewed who has your own Wikipedia page. It's excellent. But for the benefit of those who have not seen it, who are you and what do you do?

Mickey Beyer-Clausen:

Well, my name is Mickey Bea-Clauson, and uh I am, I guess you could refer to me as an entrepreneur. Have been uh part of and co-founded a few technology companies, and the latest one is Time Shifter, the one we're going to talk about today, that is um that is uh empowering people with circadian control and timing.

Matt Brown:

It's a it's a jet lag solution, but it's more, right? Like what is what is it exactly?

Mickey Beyer-Clausen:

One of our products is a jet lag app, but our company is focusing on solving multiple challenges uh that are relating to circadian. So jet lag is one area, another area is uh shift work disruption for people that work around you know 24-7, night shifts, etc. And then we also work with athletes that in addition to dealing with jet lag are also dealing with optimization or preparation for game time. So that's another dimension where they would like to their bodies to be at their at its peak when they when they compete. And um and then it goes all the way into healthcare where medications and treatments uh actually could benefit tremendously from in in a to a large extent uh from circadian timing. And when I say circadian timing, uh what I really mean is instead of looking at what time it is on our watches, we wanna we wanna time things according to your body's time, which can be very different from the time on our watches.

Matt Brown:

What was the aha moment when you realized that you wanted to build this company and make these products?

Mickey Beyer-Clausen:

So the it it sort of almost it fell in my lap. Um uh I was so lucky that um Dr. Stephen Lockley, a Harvard professor, uh that now have uh done circadian research on humans for about 30 years, uh, and another person working over at NASA, Dr. Smith Johnston, he was NASA's um head of performance fatigue and longevity programs uh you know some years ago for a long time. Um those two guys had worked together on applying circadian science to help astronauts with a jet lag when they traveled to Russia, Germany, and Japan for training. And and when they arrived there, they train the day after they arrive in the morning, and safety is a concern. If you're fatigued, don't have jet lag, it it's not uh a good thing. So obviously NASA wanted to take care of them and ensure that uh they were as safe as as possible when they uh when when they traveled and trained. Um they also worked on you know preparing astronauts for rocket launches and spacewalks and um and uh mission controllers that worked the night shift as well, where you see uh uh uh increase in accident scenarios at night because it's just not normal to have those changing work schedules. So they had applied that um uh circadian science at NASA for many years, and at some point uh wanted to bring it out to the masses and let them benefit from all the clinical research and this and the algorithms and different uh protocols that they put together for NASA. And so uh Time Shifter was born. I met them and and we uh we built uh built uh or started a company together with the intent to solve many problems, like I mentioned before, including jet lag, which is probably a smaller problem in the big scheme of things in terms of the number of people affected by it compared to how many people we are in the world. But it's a fun one, and it's one that really is helpful for travelers, uh whether they travel business or whether they need to be at their best for business meetings, or or if they um travel for vacation where they've saved up money and are going away, and then the instead of uh having the first and second day be missed. They're out enjoying it and uh sightseeing and kneading out and all of it because they don't have jet lag. So so I uh I think jet lag is the one that resonates most to me because that's the problem I used to have. Uh but uh but we're also excited about the other uh sort of applications or verticals.

Matt Brown:

You get the closing word. What's a travel adventure you'd recommend to anyone?

Mickey Beyer-Clausen:

Africa uh is uh is uh I would say is a is a very good like going uh uh safar in Africa is one of the best things I've ever heard about uh from a travel standpoint. Um, you know, to go back to the beginning where you asked me sort of who I was, and I've you know been fortunate and and and also kind of just can't help myself uh as it relates to uh starting or being part of starting uh businesses. Um when I was 17, I started a business. I lived in Denmark and uh I wanted to bring tailored clothes to Denmark from Thailand. So I went to Thailand as 17 years old and uh alone and found tailors and people I could work with out there driving around to different places, and it was a little bit wild. It was a little bit wild. Now, with my own kids being 14 and 16, one of the things I really uh love about them is that they have comfort in traveling and uh and and sort of know how to handle themselves. And it's wonderful if if young people could have the opportunity to travel and see the world and get exposed to different cultures and and and be, you know, sort of go beyond their their uh their normal uh comfort zone uh to push themselves a little bit. That's uh if if I could get it my way, I'd say, you know, every teenager at at some point when they're maybe a little bit older, should be traveling for a year uh around the world and just experience it and and be challenged and then come back. I think the world would be a different place if if if that happened. Well said, thank you very much. You're welcome. Thank you so much.