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Why DMCs Matter with Tony Lorenz

• Jeff Borman and Matt Brown

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If the word "creator" were a person, that person would be Tony Lorenz. He is known universally for his work in the global meetings and events sector and his impossibly deep understanding of the event management industry. He lays out the importance of Destination Management Companies (DMCs), entities that focus on on-the-ground logistics and specialized local experiences for travel and major events.

We talk through how they work, what would happen in a world without them, and their future. Also, how events have evolved since 2020, why they are sneakily underrated, and how to measure attendee ROI in a meaningful way.

SPEAKER_00:

Hi everybody, welcome to No Show. I'm Matt Brown, joined as always by Jeff Borman. If the word creator was a person, that person would be Tony Lorenz. Tony is the founder of HeadSale, an advisor and consulting firm in the business events and marketing services industries. He is known universally for his work in the global meetings and events sector. He is currently board member for Cohera, market leader in the event management industry. Prior to that, he was CEO of PRA, where he oversaw a massive era of transition, which included a move to headquarters, a brand refresh, global expansion, and multiple acquisitions. He was also the founding principal of Revolution, a major independent sports marketing firm, and founded Proactive, an event marketing firm which was acquired by Freeman in 2007. He has served on numerous industry and civic boards, including the Chicago Sports Commission and the PCMA Foundation. He is a daughter dad, a fierce and fervent cheerleader for the city of Chicago, and has a U.S. Coast Guard Master Captain license. Oh, the Canvas can do miracles. Just you wait and see, because today we are sailing with Tony Lorenz. Tony, welcome to No Show. I'm tired just listening to that intro, guys. Good. We like to get you in a weak state so that you'll be submissive and pliable for the answers.

SPEAKER_02:

Tony, uh PRA, uh, your former company is a DMC. What is a DMC?

SPEAKER_01:

So uh destination management is the mon is the you know the words behind the acronym. And it really is in the case of PRA and others, they're businesses that are uh delivering unique uh value and understanding of given geographies in which they reside to deliver extraordinary events, be it for for the most part, B2B, uh for a variety of brands across a variety of client verticals, uh, both corporate and association, although primarily corporate. And um, they do that through um activating these geographies and delivering these amazing events and experiences for those brands.

SPEAKER_02:

What would happen in a world without DMCs? It seems to the consumer, correct me if I'm wrong, it's an invisible layer in the experience, right? What would happen without a DMC organization?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it'd be it get it get uh either dangerous andor inefficient or both. Uh if if you're gonna drop a million dollars on a on an event in a given city, uh you may or may not select the right vendors for that city. One, and or two, um, you could overpay, and or three, you because you you get you to pick up the wrong vendors, you have uh failure at the worst possible time. There's no second chances in events. So when you have a thousand people at a given event and something goes sideways, there's really very little room to recover. And those attendees are typically pretty important because you're spending a lot of money on them, be it internal or external. So you got these big moments that you're delivering, be it for 40 or 100 or 200 or 1,000 or more. And so you want that moment to work as effectively as possible. And so that means you bring experts in that can deliver that experience in a way that is going to yield great business impact for you as the investor in that event. And if you don't have one, uh business in the middle of it, many times you you just you're operating at a high degree of risk.

SPEAKER_02:

I'll never forget an event where the transportation didn't show up. Right. Uh as it turned out, the meeting planner thought they were coming on the right day. And then bosses had it booked for the next day. Hundreds of people stranded waiting to waiting to go to this phenomenal event that they never uh ended up really experiencing properly. And unfortunately, you know, you remember the ones when the DMC, if it was indeed the DMC's fault, I'm not going that far. If there was a DMC. Or even if there was, right? But that memory, you know, hundreds of events in my lifetime that I've been shuttled around to uh that are not necessarily memorable, but the one where the buses didn't show up, never forget it. Right. Yeah. What what is the breadth then? I you know, when I think of transportation is probably a pretty easy example in my thinking of a DMC. What's the breadth of services and experiences that a DMC would facilitate?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, you you look at uh first, uh let's stay with events for a second, because there's events and there's different more isolated experiences. In events, you've got there's every event's got a venue, every event's got some need to you know deliver services to the attendees, food, beverage, entertainment, design, you know, all the things that come into play in a in a high-end event. Those are all facets of the delivery of a DMC into crafting that experience for the brand. And then you have other experiences that are maybe more a bit more uh adjunct, be it tours and other things that you do that are helpful to that overall multi-day experience. Because you've got anywhere from incentive programs to sales kickoff meetings to customer events, you know, all those are different, have different objectives behind them. And yet you want to deliver strong experiences to um bring value to the brand that's investing in those experiences for their and with their attendees. Um, so it it runs the gamut, but those are primary buckets of the quarterbacking activity, if you will, that a DMC delivers. And what determines excellence from one DMC to the next? Great question. There's fiduciary responsibility for the investment, one, not necessarily in any order here. There's uh attendee satisfaction, two, and the the the largely uncharted territory, believe it or not, in this, you know, very ancient, been around a long time, this industry is business impact. I think that there's giant room for uh any brand, any provider to a brand to do a better job of underscoring the business impact that gets delivered to a brand for the investment that that brand makes in that experience. Um, be it through uh employee retention, sales, current client growth, new client acquisition, depending on the event, whatever the brand, the you know, the outcome, desired outcomes are. Um, that's happens, but it doesn't happen nearly as often as you would think it would happen for uh brands given the investment, the level of investment they make in these experiences.

SPEAKER_02:

Given your time in this industry and with adjacent industries, if you went back 20 years ago, how have DMCs evolved to today and tee up to the next one? What do they look like in 20 years?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh well, I can go back more in 20 because they've been around a long time. I'm 112 years old, it seems, but given that earlier intro. But um, so I I don't think, to be honest, if you look at the core, core, core of a of a DMC, or for that matter, just a broader event management company, hasn't changed a lot in that time frame. Uh, what has changed is the method of delivery. Obviously, social me social media has had a dramatic impact on how these events are communicated because you've got an event for a thousand, depending on whether it's internal or external, you want more people to know about it and see value in that brand experience that they didn't get to than those that were there, depending on the event, the incentives, not as much as customer-facing events, et cetera. So, so there's there's the amplification of events that has changed, courtesy of social media. One, there is the method and means by which these events are crafted. The technology is, as we all know, pouring in now and making productivity a lot, lot easier to deliver uh for both the agency and for the brand, because of, you know, we're 12 minutes into AI, it got mentioned, but here we are. It it is it is currently and will continue to impact um the way in which events are delivered, uh, the the workflows behind them, et cetera. So that's quickly changing. But you know, the the the timeless nature of events and what they do, and they establish and expand on trust and inspiration and education and all the things that events deliver, that hasn't really changed. Uh it's the the way by which they're delivered, the amplification of those experiences and how others that weren't there see and experience them. That's changed to a pretty good degree.

SPEAKER_02:

It feels like I don't go a month without reading some uh statistics on the growing importance of experience. Uh some of that is a generational thing, right? Uh that a that a today's largest consumer group, call it age 20 to 40, uh, puts experiences at a much higher priority uh than prior generations. Uh but the business, I guess my question is, is it evolving to meet that generational difference? Uh better. Well, yeah. Okay. So maybe the better question there is how?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So I think that it is happening. I mean, because you've got in in in digital digital content that runs across everybody's phones and laptops all day long, it's it's either genuine or not. Whereas yeah, face-to-face experiences are authentic. You can't fake it. It's decidedly analog, and yet it's very, very powerful. It's the I've always called events, and I will take this to my grave, the most powerful media on the planet. It's the most expensive media, uh, but it's also the most powerful. So to the extent that we can, as an industry, deliver on that promise, which we are delivering, if that stays you know, front and center in the way that we deliver, then great. If we don't, and we start to mail in things that were done two, three, five, 10 years ago, it's not going to fulfill on the promise because that the the evolution of expectation of the attendee, and for that matter, the clients is changing at a pretty good clip. So the evolution of the design and the delivery of these events needs to change along with it. And and many are doing a really good job of that, and some are not. Some are still copy pasting in things from 2018 or whatever, and it just doesn't work anymore.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, there's an article where you were quoted as saying that the industry is critically important to the way business gets done, and it's not always reflected. Why do you think the events industry is underrated?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh, it probably is rooted in the there's no one reason, but the one that I've spent years talking about is this the lack of measurement and the the tie-off of the the outcome, the measurable outcome of an experience on a business. I'm staying with B2B because with consumer or at revolution, it's it's a lot of you know brand activation and awareness and you know more top of funnel uh areas, whereas in B2B, you're talking with current employees, current clients many, many times, and and how that value is presented upstairs is and by upstairs, I mean C level is missing. And so thus it gets dust kind of less becomes cost centered. That's when the next financial crisis happens, is the first thing to go, as was the case in 089 and COVID, et cetera. I mean, the events industry went to zero other than virtual events, which I was you know lucky to be in the middle of, there was no events industry, shocking as it was. And now you saw what happened coming out of it, it's exploded because of that inherent need to be together.

SPEAKER_00:

If you're a person running a big event or uh show for a major trade association, and you're sitting in your office in DC and the numbers are coming in, uh, the exhibitors have signed up for the LVCC next year. I think you've rebounded from COVID. It's blue skies. But what's something right now that's maybe under the radar that you should be paying attention to?

SPEAKER_01:

It's been addressed in some degree, but not to a full degree. The the event that we're talking about, let's use Las Vegas as an example that's going to come in 26. That event is a platform for content and community. And so to the extent that that content and community that happens in that case, in your running example of Las Vegas, doesn't get amplified out to the broader audience. I had a discussion, oh my God, 10 years ago with Chris Brown, who runs and at the time ran the NAB show in Las Vegas. 100,000 people every April, no questions, ifs, ands, or buts. He said, I said, so Chris, you got a good show, you're making a lot of money. What's the what's the problem here? He goes, Tony, I've got 500,000 people around the world that will never get to Vegas, ever. And in a good year, in their best year, our best year, they won't get there. So how do I get this amazing experience out to them? And if I don't get it out to them, then I'm leaving value on the table. So for association events, which is quite different than corporate, obviously, but for association events to your question, that to me is the unspoken, not or spoken or unspoken opportunity I think that some companies and organizations do quite well at, and some completely miss it.

SPEAKER_00:

To wit, Jeff and I have been to and been part of a lot of business events over the years. And I think when you do a lot of these, and you've been to about one billion of them, a kind of sameness can set in, right? Here's the networking, here's the exhibit space, here's the session where the C-suite panelists pretend they're intimately familiar with AI. If you were going to an event today, not as the organizer, but as a civilian, like as an attendee, how would you personally measure the ROI and the value of that event? And that can be big or small.

SPEAKER_01:

So I think that uh Freeman's done a nice job with this research of late. And it I think it's very, very accurate in that staying with the attendee, because that's your question. The attendee, to the extent that they come out of that experience with some moment, it's not a big production, it's not fireworks or four million dollar stage sets or any of that. That matters to some small degree. Much matters, much more to the organization than does to the attendee. To the attendee that comes out of a given experience of a day or two or three or more with personal value from personal interaction or a uh a nugget of understanding they didn't have but for that event. That to me, as an attendee, is the value. Uh, I went to Costa Rica last week for a smaller event of customer advisory. I was an advisory board thing with BCMA, and I came out with a new appreciation for Costa Rica and why the fact that they debilitated, they took, they defunded their military, put all that money in the education as an example, and healthcare. And that was in the 50s, I believe. So you can ex you can imagine what's gone on to that community. Everybody's educated, everybody's bilingual, and the customer service, you know, all the things that are keeping homelessness down to zero and um uh crime down to practically zero are a function of that fiscal decision that the public sector made. Um, I would never have gotten that but for the experience, you know. So maybe that's a little bit offline, but that's you know, an example of very recent experience I had as a just an attendee.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh I would like to cut that uh from the recording because I am such a fan of Costa Rica, particularly Guanacaste, where you were and plan to move there.

SPEAKER_01:

And I don't need this podcast with your endorsement putting more eyeballs on the it's already at a I I put a LinkedIn post on it that got about 8,000 impressions. So no. Jeff Run. Yeah, you better, but I'm buying I'm buying real estate down there now.

SPEAKER_02:

So you Okay, then maybe we do need to talk about it. Uh it's it's it's a phenomenal place for all the reasons you mentioned. Uh culturally, uh you know what a great tagline, pura vida. And and and they they mean it to their heart.

SPEAKER_01:

It goes back to you know the the the research out of Freeman, which is if you can if you can pull out you know moments of value that uh as an attendee I receive by virtue of an experience I'm in that I would not have gotten otherwise, that to me is is value. And then and then that gets personified for the organizer, be it brand or association, into some level of business impact that justifies their investment.

SPEAKER_02:

You you said something similar in an interview with PCMA a while ago, uh 2018, uh about the favorite uh thing about your job. And you said we have a real opportunity to change an entire sector of the industry and in doing so help elevate business events to a more prominent position in the community. Can you take that a step further if you can? That was in 18, it was pre-COVID. Does that still apply? And if it does, is it different? No.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh it'll it still applies, it'll always apply. Uh and COVID took the the industry to zero, uh, but for the virtual piece, and then you saw what came back out of it. So the inherent need is there. If you don't have inherent need, there's no pain point. And in this case, coming out of COVID, the pain point was I can't, I've not been around people, I need to be around people again. I need to, I need to get that experience back into my you know person than I did that I didn't have for a few years. Um that's a pain point that addresses that the events address, how they address it is much different. How do they do it? Do they they drag back the the session, the you know, channel session for an hour with 55 slides, go to a breakout in 45 minutes, and you know, the whole typical drill that we've all experienced too many times, that doesn't work anymore. So to the extent that you evolve to the meet the level of expectation of the attendee, especially, because they're the customer. I mean, yes, the brands pay for it, but the the attendee is going to define whether or not that event was worth it or not to them personally, then that changes. So some things don't change. The need to be together will never change. I'll again take that to my grave. It's super powerful. Uh, but the way in which the hows, if you will, have dramatically changed because people's lives have changed. I mean, uh, think about choosing to not go into work if you're a frontline and you know a white collar worker and you just don't want to go in on Mondays or Fridays, that would have never happened in 18. Right now it's what it is, you know. So expectations have changed, uh, but the inherent need for getting together has not changed.

SPEAKER_02:

One of the biggest struggles I I have, this is personally, but this is also with you know fellow attendees at events, is staying engaged. It's just too easy to stare at your phone all day. Yeah. And I don't mean for person. I mean, you know, the texts that are coming in from your friends and family, the stuff that's coming in from your work that you're not present at because you're at this event. And it's like, you know, right. I can't tell you how many dozens of events I've left and wondered why I went because and it had nothing to do with the event. Right? The event producer could have done a phenomenal job, but I was staring at you know what was going on back home in the office. Right. Is there are there solutions for this? If you try to take people's phones, they're not coming. What's the solution?

SPEAKER_01:

I misplaced my phone for an hour the other day. It felt like a day, you know, but that's not gonna happen. So I think what you have to do is recognize the fact that, and again, this could be a debatable point, but I don't think there's a personal professional life anymore. I think there's a life. And so to the extent that we design these experiences to recognize the fact that it is a life, one life, not work, personal, professional, but one life, and then accommodate the experience to address that life. So when you're taking you, you get pained because your your family is asking you for 17 different things in a given morning, you've got you know, uh you're in the middle of an event design that allows you to address that. So you don't leave. Or if you're home equally and you have things come up at work that everybody gets it and you, you know, you address the things that need to be addressed professionally. So it's it's one life delivered with authenticity and delivered in a way that um does not have that. There should be a line of demarcation. You should be able to go to Costa Rica for a week and turn off, you know, but you know most of the most of the rest of the year, it's it's just not the case anymore, uh at least for me. You know, so um designing experiences to accommodate the fact that it's not just personal, professional, but a life that is necessarily um accommodating all facets of your life and designing accordingly is the way to get there.

SPEAKER_00:

You are also, of course, an expert in sports marketing and the potential and power that sports has to help brands. Uh to be a sports fan in 2025 is to be saturated with branding and promotion. It it's a wave that washes over us. So when you have advised companies in the past that want to leverage sports, was there was there ever a question that you you made them answer before like step one before they got into this?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, first of all, I'm I'm I'm personally not an expert in sports marketing. I I um my role at Rev beyond the founding investor role was to uh buy companies that the throw the growth objectives of Revolution. That was where my my focus was. I wasn't really client-facing the per se, but uh obviously as a member of the exec team, I was around it every day. And so to your question, uh the first question that you ask is what you would ask in the B2B event is what are your business objectives? And if you want, if you're a CEO of a major consulting firm and you want to go into golf, you know, international golf brand, does that make sense or not? You know, or do you want to go into F1? Does that make sense or not? And why would you go into F1 if you're a fast food business based only in North America when F1 is a global sport? And maybe there's a reason for that, maybe because they're moving into Europe or I don't know, you know, but let's start with business objective, start with the that combined with your identified uh target market, and then from there move into whatever sport platform makes sense. And some people go the other way, they want to be in golf or they want to be in ref one, and they force fit the investment to accommodate their quote unquote personal objectives, and that doesn't work.

SPEAKER_00:

It's time for the mystery question. For one day, Tony, you have galactic, godlike power to snap your fingers and change one thing about Chicago sports. It could be anything, it could be uh ownership, it could be a stadium, it could be a way of doing business. All you have to do is think it and make it so. What how would you use that incredible power?

SPEAKER_01:

Um okay. So I'm a lifelong Bear fan, and I have admiration for George Hallis and his family and what they've done. It's time. Yeah, it's time to and Pat Ryan, who owns 23% or so of the Bears, is a personal friend, and the family of the Ryan family is amazing. So I'll I'll not include them in this discussion because I think they're a fantastic family. But the the Hallis family needs to, yeah, it's time to transact the business, my view.

SPEAKER_00:

And then Tony Lorenz, thank you so much for being a guest on No Show. You take care. Thank you so much.