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Heather Heverling from Audley Travel

• Jeff Borman and Matt Brown

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Jeff and Matt speak with Heather Heverling, President and Managing Director of Audley Travel, about the stratospheric rise of bespoke travel, the purchasing power of solo female travelers, the growing desire for unique in-country experiences, the need for local connections, the trip that totally subverted her expectations, and what makes Audley Travel different in the travel market.

https://www.audleytravel.com/

https://www.instagram.com/audleytravel/


Matt Brown:

Hi everybody, it's no Show with Matt Brown and Jeff Borman. Two years ago, bespoke tour operator Audley Travel announced the appointment of Heather Heverlyne as president and managing director of its US business, and they could not have picked a better ambassador for travel. Prior to her appointment, heverlyne was president of adventure tour operator. Adventure Women was senior vice president of product management at National Geographic and the senior vice president of worldwide operations at Grand Circle Corporation. Now, 25 years and 40 countries later, she's been named as 2024's most influential women in travel by Travel Pulse, is a go-to expert called upon by NBC News and the New York Times and scores of other media outlets, and she is a phenomenal advocate for the role of women in the travel industry, including everyone from executive management in the US to female guides and accommodation owners all over the world. Her life is travel and all of our lives are better for it. Heather, welcome to no Show.

Heather Heverling:

Thank you so much for having me today. Really excited to be here.

Matt Brown:

Let's begin at the beginning. What is Audley Travel and what makes it different?

Heather Heverling:

Audley Travel originally was a UK company and has been operating in the UK for 30 years now, and has been operating in the UK for 30 years now.

Heather Heverling:

10 years ago they decided to branch out into the US market.

Heather Heverling:

What we focus on in terms of our business model is that we provide completely customized trips to countries on every continent of the globe, and what that means is every trip that we design is unique to the client who calls in and wants to work with one of our country specialists and to touch on what sets us apart from all of our competition and other companies in the travel industry is our country specialist. They come to Audley having had either lived or worked or traveled extensively in the country where they've previously lived, so that they can get really up-to-date and current insider knowledge about the destination that they'll be selling. So really they offer our clients, I would say, firsthand insights that people wouldn't be able to find through a Google search or through a guidebook. You know, from a hidden gem type of restaurant to the best room in a hotel to get sunset views. So we really invest a lot of our time in finding the best possible candidates to serve this country specialist role so that they can deliver the best service to our clients start to finish.

Jeff Borman:

I've been a customer of Audley for many years. I didn't realize until right now that it's probably the point at which, 10 years ago, they made the leap to the US Twice in South America. Three times trips during Middle East Africa, currently planning something with Samantha to Sicily, Most recently when the earthquake hit Morocco in the fall of 23, Corinne and I had to postpone that trip for an entire year and on two weeks notice Liz was able to create an entire itinerary for us to Egypt and not many agencies could have pulled that off. Talk to me a bit about how Audley uses guides for different experiences in different countries and what's the relationship and the dynamic like between the planning and the on-the-ground guide work.

Heather Heverling:

Guides are absolutely essential, I would say, to any travel experience and at Audley we really pride ourselves on working with the best possible guides in each country where we operate Private guiding, which is what we focus on, because our trips are all personalized and customized. It's very different from group guiding because, in addition to having you know outstanding local and historical knowledge, you have to be particularly attuned to the specific interests, dietary restrictions and physical ability of each individual client. When you're guiding for Audley, you know I always use an example from my travels with oddly. I am not big on having my photo taken. I love to take tons of pictures of the destinations when I'm traveling. I just choose to not be in them and guides will typically, you know they always offer oh, do you want me to take a picture of you here or there? Our guides at oddly they the minute they know that you're not interested in that, they won't keep trying to offer you again and again oh, do you want me to take your photo? They know your dietary restrictions.

Heather Heverling:

I am allergic to seafood. In Portugal they have tons of amazing seafood at hand and a lot of dining experiences are typically built around eating fish or something near the water. They know up front that I can't do that, so it's not even mentioned on the itinerary as a possible dining stop. So it's really that personalized, individual, one-to-one service that our guides. They're chosen and selected by Audley for their skill in that area. Guides are so critical to what we do that we actually have every other year we hold the guide awards. In 2023, we had our 10th ever Audley guide awards in Saigon and we honored 38 guides who work with us throughout the world for their excellent work with Audley clients. So it's really important for us that we have the right people in country to not only give our clients a wealth of knowledge and history and understanding about the culture, but also just to make sure that every single experience in country is really tailor-made to that individual client and their preferences.

Jeff Borman:

It's totally the guides that make the in-country experience unique. My wife doesn't like this phrase, but I often say she and I travel mouth first. The personal experiences that they enable are what a travel pro like me can't do. I can plan hotels and air and travel components, but the deepest experiences that are facilitated by Audley are the on-ground authentic connections I mentioned. A few months ago we did go to Morocco through Audley and my wife Heather and I and our driver Basri, our guide Badr, an octogenarian Berber woman, and our driver Basri, our guide, bought her, an octogenarian Berber woman. We literally made bread together over a fire outside of her house in the high Atlas Mountains, then broke bread together in her home without a word in common and it was one of the most memorable moments of our two weeks. And when a random goat joined our gathering, just walked right in the house, right Like there's no way without your team of planners and guides that could have come anywhere close to that experience and maybe my favorite of that whole trip, most memorable.

Heather Heverling:

I always say personally that you know, when you travel you see lots of architecture or monuments and museums and that's great, but what I always bring home with me in my heart and my memories, it's always the interactions with people. The people stay with you forever and the guides for us at Audley are really the conduit to building that connection between the client and the locals in country where our clients are traveling.

Jeff Borman:

The guides are part of the experience themselves too, not just facilitating the connection points. Getting to know a country and a culture happens by spending a lot of time in the car with them and on hikes with them. The ambassador is really that oddly presents to the client. The ambassador is really that oddly presents to the client. Botter, one of our guides in the Atlas Mountains, shared a particularly personal story about when COVID shut down his livelihood for over a year and oddly subsidized something like 60% of his pay to help his family through Five-time. Client had never heard that. It didn't seem like something you were really marketing and I kind of applaud you if that's true. But tell us about the Audley Foundation, because that really knocked me back.

Heather Heverling:

Yeah, you know to your point. The Audley Foundation isn't something that we really shout from the rooftops that we're doing because it's not a marketing gimmick or ploy for us. It's really just about, you know, being able to give back to the communities where we travel and that's really something that's organic. In Audley's impoverished villages in the Atlas Mountains, which is an area close to Marrakesh in Morocco, each village our local supplier who we work with in Morocco they've built a preschool center in each village and that gives young children the opportunity to receive a basic education, gives young children the opportunity to receive a basic education. It's also used to teach local women literacy and practical skills like sewing or cooking. It's not just important that we're giving back to local communities as a whole, but specifically really trying to focus on local women. I'd say, just in terms of what you mentioned, jeff, in terms of your travel experience and that the guide mentioned, that we subsidized some of the wages following the earthquake which struck in I think it was September of 2023.

Heather Heverling:

The foundation really, you know, leapt into action, launched an international campaign to raise funds to purchase supplies and to help get them to some of these remote communities.

Heather Heverling:

We ensured at Audley, as part of this that you know a lot of travel companies canceled their contracts with some of the tour operators and providers on the ground in Morocco and really just kind of stopped sending travelers. And you know we made a commitment to our partners and the guides that work for our partners that we were not going to abandon them in really a critical time of need, and so we continued with our contract and continued working with not only our local operator there but also the people, specifically the guides, who we know are just mission critical to our overall client experience at Audley. So giving back, it's really important to us. We did become B Corp certified in May of 2023. And a big piece of that certification was around a lot of the activities that we have in place as an organization, not only to give back in the destinations where we travel, but also to give back to the communities where we have our offices, both in the UK and here in the US.

Matt Brown:

Nearly 40% of female travelers voiced interest in setting out solo in 2025. And there are percentage spikes across the spectrum of women who want to travel by themselves or in groups, and the numbers are dramatically higher than they were even five years ago or 10 years ago. What do you think is driving that?

Heather Heverling:

is driving that. Yeah, you know it's funny. I am asked about this often and what's funny to me is that this isn't really a new phenomenon and, when you look historically, over 80% of travel decisions are now and have always been made by women. I think what's gaining traction now, and why we're seeing a lot more about this in the press, is that before, I think women were behind the scenes making travel decisions about what destination to see next or how long they would go. But we typically tend to travel with a partner, and now women are really feeling empowered to travel alone, without their partner or when they're single.

Heather Heverling:

I can say personally, I've always been a single traveler. I prefer it because I really think that traveling solo gives you the opportunity to experience really authentically the local culture, because you're able to do more things. When it's just one of you, versus even a small group, you're able to, I think, make more meaningful and lasting connections with the people in the destination where you travel. I always say that I learn more about myself when I travel alone than anywhere else in the world, even here at home, because I think when you travel alone, you get outside of your comfort zone. You maybe try foods that you wouldn't have tried otherwise, or you take one step further than maybe you would have. I bungee jumped off the Victoria Falls Bridge in Zimbabwe. I'm not a daredevil, but I just thought OK, I'm here, this is an incredible opportunity, I'm going to go for it.

Matt Brown:

Heather, when you first started in the industry, did you observe a gender bias in travel, either on the marketing side or compensation, or to the UX of the trip itself, and, if so, have those biases changed over the last couple of decades?

Heather Heverling:

Yeah, it's really interesting. So, despite the fact that, as I mentioned, you know, 80% of travel decisions or more have always been made by women, when you look at companies where I've worked anyway, it's been pretty consistent in terms of gender split that there would be more female employees. However, there's always been overall low representation of women in leadership positions. So senior management or on the board, I'd say you know decision-making positions, have typically been filled with men. Looking at compensation, you know it kind of carries through to that. So even if a woman was in a commensurate role with a male counterpart, typically they would make less.

Heather Heverling:

And I think to your point around UX and trip design and all of that absolutely marketing voice was never really geared towards women in the past. And so I think for me, kind of coming up in the travel industry, you know I always looked for female mentorship to try to grow. You know I am very ambitious, I always want to learn, I think you can always be better and I'm a sponge and I want to always do more and learn more and I really struggled to find some strong female leaders to help sort of guide me through my career path. And looking at where we are today, you know, we've definitely made progress and I'm really proud, I think, to be part of some of that progress. But there's still, you know, as always, there's still more work to be done. Fewer than 20% of management roles and fewer than 10% of board seats are held by women in the travel industry even today. So we've made huge inroads there, but there's obviously a lot more opportunity ahead. Pay parity has definitely improved significantly over the course of my career, and there are. You know, I'm on the board for Audley. I am acting as the president and managing director for the US business, so I'm really proud to be sitting in a pretty high leadership role within the industry.

Heather Heverling:

I think another thing that's really important to me that Audley supports really well through some of the initiatives we do is it's not just in the companies here in the US that are selling trips to get people into the destination. I think equally important is trying to raise up and empower the women in those local destinations where we travel. That's to me, a huge area of opportunity going forward, and females really haven't had those chances to be a business owner or to make money through tourism in the past, and so the more that we can encourage women guides, which 20 years ago there was no such thing as women guides. Really, in a lot of countries around the world there are more and more female guides that we're seeing, even in countries where historically like Morocco is a great example Traditionally there weren't women guides there at all, and now there are more and more. So trying to provide opportunities for Audley to work with some women in countries so that they can make money doing what they love in this industry is really, really important.

Jeff Borman:

It travels an incredible vehicle to distribute money from the wealthiest to the most needy countries, to directly to the most needy people, in many cases helping create direct, meaningful experiences that promote humanity and kindness and the preservation of culture. I could go on all day. I can hardly think of a more noble profession than facilitating travel and hospitality. What is the best kept secret about travel advisors?

Heather Heverling:

Maybe people don't know about it as much as they should, but the reality is for us at Audley and our country specialists I mentioned earlier but they've actually they haven't just visited the countries that they sell, they've lived there, they've worked there, they have been a part of that local fabric and that culture and so they know so many insider tips and just nuances about how things work and operate in the countries that they sell.

Heather Heverling:

They absolutely love sharing all of that wisdom and knowledge and experience with our clients. They really want to make the experiences as personal and unique as possible. Every day that our country specialists are doing a video call or on the phone with a potential client and learning about what they like in terms of travel experiences and style, they're kind of reliving again their own experiences as country specialists when they lived in these countries and it's a way that you know, no two trips are the same in terms of what we put together for our clients and so they love it. It's not boring, it's not a business transaction for us at all. It's really a love of travel and just a pride in sharing knowledge with our clients.

Jeff Borman:

What's the thing they would cut out? He pulled all of your planners. One thing they would say I wish that wasn't part or much easier part of my job um flights of course I mean, it's the thing that no one likes, right?

Heather Heverling:

I mean, I think the worst, I think everyone can agree that the worst part of any travel experience is typically when you're on the plane getting to and from that country. I think just the number of carriers that are out there, you know points, miles, there's just a lot, and I think it's always the least favorite part of anyone's travel experience. So if we didn't have to deal with that, I think our country specialists would be thrilled because they could just talk about Italy or Japan until the cows come home, because that's what they love, or Japan till the cows come home, because that's what they love.

Jeff Borman:

Audley caters to a pretty well-off demographic and that same demographic tends to also have you mentioned points, a whole lot of points, that they use for travel. That's probably not very convenient for your teams, right? In order to book and use all my Bonvoy points well, I wouldn't call Audley to do it. In order to redeem my American Airlines points? I don't call Audley to do that. Is the growth of loyalty programs kind of a hidden threat to the business?

Heather Heverling:

Well. So in terms of airline points and miles, we do actually work with our clients so that they can use them when they're booking flights through Audley. So we have learned. You know, just like AI and other advancements in technology and in the industry, you have to adapt and change and you need, you know, you need to embrace change and look at it as an opportunity. And so for us, we know that those loyalty programs are. I personally am a huge loyalty program person. You said Marriott Bonvoy. The minute I'm going anywhere, I'm Googling is there a Marriott here, a courtyard, whatever it is? I'm there, I want to get my nights and get my credit. We know that that's important to our travelers. So we have modified, I would say, where our business model was when we first started in the US 10 years ago to today, to make sure that we are again. Just the client comes first. So everything we do, it's based on what works best for the client. So you want to use airline miles? We can make it happen.

Matt Brown:

It's time for the lightning round Heather, favorite national park from any country, including the US.

Heather Heverling:

All right, I'm going to say probably one that most people wouldn't. I'm going to say the Lake District in the United Kingdom. It's the biggest national park in the UK and it's really just the. It's just where people live. It's not some like walled off piece of land. People live there and I've had the pleasure of hiking through there, meeting lots of people, and it was absolutely breathtaking and a good workout.

Matt Brown:

It also sounds like the perfect place if Top Gear is any guide to go caravanning. It's a big caravanning area where people can go up and take their trailers and just camp out for a summer.

Heather Heverling:

Yes, and people do that along the way. Some people hike coast to coast, others will hike a bit and then, yeah, they'll have a caravan and they'll camp out for a night and then have someone meet them miles and miles down the road at the end of their next hiking segment.

Jeff Borman:

What's the strangest thing you've ever eaten?

Heather Heverling:

Oh well, you know, they say it's always better when it's fried. So I've had a fried cockroach in Zimbabwe, I've had fried crickets in Thailand and somehow it doesn't taste like chicken.

Matt Brown:

But putting that stuff in the fryer makes it edible country in 2025 to visit on a budget you just mentioned. I think you were just quoted in the New York Times about Laos, so it can't be Laos.

Heather Heverling:

It has to be something else.

Matt Brown:

We want fresh material.

Heather Heverling:

Well, this is cheating, but it's accurate and true. So Laos, neighbors, thailand, vietnam, cambodia, anything really in Southeast Asia, your dollar goes so far and the value for money is off the charts.

Jeff Borman:

Recommended travel related book.

Heather Heverling:

Oh, this one's easy because I just finished it this weekend. I'm a voracious reader and actually ties in with some of the things we were talking about earlier. It's called 12 Trips in 12 Months by Jen Ruiz, and it's all about traveling as a solo woman and there were so many things that she mentioned in the book that really resonated with me around some of my travel experiences and how you know the serendipity that happens when you travel and you just find yourself and especially when you travel alone, you find yourself in these situations that were unplanned and weren't necessarily part of your itinerary, but where you meet a local person or you do, you know, you cook a meal with them, or you make an art or craft with them and you and it just brings the whole destination to life. So it really just resonated with me on so many levels. Go buy it, read it. It's a good one.

Matt Brown:

A trip that totally subverted your expectations for for good or for ill A thing, a trip that you were planning on, and it's like I know what I'm getting into. And then you arrived in country and it's like, wow, this is not what I expected and I can't wait to see what's going to happen next.

Heather Heverling:

I would say Myanmar. So I traveled to Myanmar over a decade ago, when it was really just opening up for tourism and, you know, you couldn't use your cell phone, couldn't use credit cards, you couldn't. There was no money exchange. You had to go to a black market, like hole in the wall, and you had to bring like a certain kind of $20 bill and and so, going in, I, it just all seemed very rigid and, um, just that, the infrastructure wasn't there and it was just going to be like a very bare bones kind of experience. And I again, the thing that I brought home from that trip, that just it, it was not at all bare bones but absolutely filled my heart and my spirit. The local people there were absolutely incredible and they couldn't speak English at all. Um, and they know, this one man at night took me in into his home where he lived, which was in the middle of this jungle. They had a car battery that was hooked up to a TV and they were watching reruns of the Johnny Carson show in the middle of nowhere and they just kept feeding me bananas because that's all they had and that was their. You know the way of showing their hospitality, the warmth and the compassion and just the spirit of these people was just overwhelming.

Heather Heverling:

And I went to a school.

Heather Heverling:

Sorry, I'm rambling a little bit because now I'm remembering all the things about the trip, but I went to a school and I tried to teach them math, you know again not speaking each other's language and the whole time that the kids were staring at me and they finally, as I was leaving, the kids circled around me and they wanted to touch my hair because they had never seen a person with blonde hair before.

Heather Heverling:

And I have this photo of me standing in the middle of all these kids touching my hair because they just they, they had no idea, they thought I was like a spirit from another planet or something, and it just to see the wonderment in their eyes and to be able to have been part of that experience. For them. It changed my life forever. I mean, those are the things that stay in my heart forever. And, yeah, like you said, I could keep going. I have so many memories from that one trip and there's been so many trips and I hope that there are many, many more to come in the future. I always feel full in terms of mind, body and spirit when I come home from traveling because it's always memorable and usually in some way it changes who I am as a person and just gives me a whole new outlook and perspective.